Mugen LSD?

[kannon]

How do each of the units handle a wheel lifting? Ive heard lifting a wheel with a quaife is the kiss of death. is there any truth to this rumor?

[sirg]

i think the Mugen one is 2.5 way. which is gonna be a bit too harsh for daily driving, ur gonna be breaking axles. 2.5way is really a bit crazy for the street, but it bites like crazy. keep in mind that the mugen 2.5way will most likely have to be rebuilt every.......15k or so, depending on how u drive, and those clutches cost about $300 i set (i think, dont quote me on that). i only tried it once when i was in japan, i never tried the gear quaife, so i cant say which is better.

[Holden]

I thought LSD's only come in 1, 1.5 and 2 way.

1 way = Limited Slip for Power
1.5 way = Limited Slip for Power and some braking torque transfer
2 way = Limited Slip for Power and Brake.

I also thought the 2 way LSD's were rear wheel drive only devices.

What is a 2.5 way LSD?

My knowledge on this is fuzzy, so feel free to correct me.

Greg

[vactor]

ok, a few things. the quaife in my civic works extremely well, and the wheel pulling a bit at times is just a direct reflection of the torque transfer occuring. second, i have NO idea what the term "aggressive" means in an LSD application..??!! i think it is being used incorrectly unless someone can tell me why it is appropriate in this context. also, i think it is important to re itterate the lifetime warranty that quaife has on the units they make, as well as the no-rebuild/special fluid thing. remember, kaaz recommends fluid changes every 1875 miles and full rebuilds at 18750 miles. sure you can go longer, but you can also go for a gooooood loooooooong time without an oil change. and the no-warranty thing is a downer as well. then there is the stuff that others have already mentioned that i won't go into. sure, mugen has a great reputation for quality parts, but i think if performance is key, look at what makes something a performance item. reliability, durability and change in performance. i don't think you can do better than a quaife. period. now, there is no way the mugen can be a 2.5 way LSD as there is no such thing (1 way, 1.5 way and 2 way). a 2 way LSD in a FWD car is not always a good thing (ask king motorsports). and a "way" lsd only describes the clutch types and does not apply in any way to gear types. anyway, i hope this helps, and i am here to learn as well.

[SteveW]

I used to mock the person who said "aggressive" when applied to a LSD, but after experiencing the ITR and the other Gear type ones I understand what is meant. It is hard to explain, but it seems to feel different in the corners, maybe the seamless work of the gear types compared to the abruptness of the clutch type. Hard to explain but there is a difference.

The oil changes arent that bad, you can make it 5-6000 miles between changes. And I am sure no one is racing this on a weekly basis so that it would need a rebuild a year. Maybe 18000 racing miles it needs a rebuild, but for normal driving I have heard of people going 3 years.

I like my unit, it does as it is supposed to, and it is much cheaper than a quaife. If it was as quiet I would have no reservations, but if you can deal with it, then go Kaaz.


Steve

[vactor]

and i have heard of many a woman who drives a car for tens of thousands of miles or many YEARS without an oil change. i did not say one had to, but that is what is recommended. same as with the 3k oil changes for the motor.

[MDA]

Someone mentioned about the back of forth motion of the Quaife... i know exactly what you mean.. under regular driving conditions this is not felt..not in turns either... but when you hit thhe dragstrip... yes... if you go all out.. and you can make enough power to start to loose grip.. then yes, it transfers... just a property of getting the max down to the ground...

I was just curious... depending on how much rubber grip you have to the ground.. if you ran a clutch type diff... how would one know if the discs arnt slipping more then they should? the clutch type again, are different from something like a Phantom grip.. it just locks... the quiafe uses gears... so no internal slipage... but friction discs? are they reliable ?

[sirg]

sorry sorry, let me explain hee hee. Some manufacturers make LSD's in different configurations and are commonly classified as 1 way, 2way, and 1.5 way. A 1 way differential means that the cam is shaped in such way as to have positive lock only when accelerating. The 2 way is constructed in a way to have positive lock motion in either acceleration or deceleration. The 1.5 way is a new term used to describe the 2 way cam which enables different lock up rates during the two directional forces. The 1.5 distribute positive lock stronger under acceleration than when decelerating. The 1.5 way can provide more forgiving balance when braking than a full 2 way setup, although it is less effective for true racing applications, it provides easier operation for beginners in throttle off conditions. It is also effective for front drive cars which need extra stability during braking.

with all that said, i think the mugen is 2way. sorry about the 2.5way. i hope i explained it. if not, well...i tried. please forgive me hee hee.

[sirg]

on a different note. TRD-Toyota Technocraft, Mugen-Honda Racing, RalliArt-Mitsubishi Rally Operations, MazdaSpeed-Mazda, STI-Subaru Technica Int., NISMO- Nissan Motorsports, all have their LSD made by the same supplier, a Hitachi subsidiary. They use the factory casing and re-work the inside. This limits the size and number of the gears, and clutches thereby sacrificing true potential. if u want really good stuff, you should try cusco LSD. they dont run as hot as mugen LSD. because mugen one have smaller clutch than the cusco LSD.

with all that said, mugen is still a great LSD. but on specs, its does not compare with cusco LSD. but then if your driving it on the street most of the time, mugen will be good enough. BTW, Mugen LSD in japan sells for about $450.....i am sure of that, but this was 5years ago. to give u an idea of how people charge you like hell because u dont speak japanese, my friend got a quote from a company that carry TRD LSD for IS300. he was quoted at $1200, but when it called japan myself, it only cost $550 shipped.

i hope i am not confusing anyone here, sorry.

[VaporTrail]

I have the Kaaz LSD in my B18c5 CRX with a 93 GSR trans. I got the 1.5 way. This thing rocks. I really like it. It was abrupt and noisy at first, before I broke it in correctly, it felt and sounded a lot like axle bind. But after break in and fluid change, it smoothed right out. It's now quiet, though you can still tell it's there, and only clunks in the tightest of parking maneuvers. Handling is much improved, and straight line traction makes it well worth the money. In comparison to my friends turbo 1.8 Si with a Quaiffe, it's more aggressive, but I think I like the Quaiffe more for a street driven car. You can feel the back and forthe movement on the Quaiffe, whereas with the Kaaz none is present. If you're going to drag race heavily or auto-x/road race, I'd choose the Kaaz.

From the Kaaz manual, they recommend a fluid change every 3k miles, more if racing, and a rebuild at 15-30k depending on driving conditions. This is not really an issue with my car, as it only sees light street duty, and competitions, so amassing 15k miles is going to take a long time. Also, you can use GL-5 synthetic as a replacement for the ultra $$ Kaaz oil.

Just my dos centavos...

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-JG-
00 Honda S2000
88 Honda CRX (1.8 DOHC VTEC)

www.vapor-trail.net